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	<title>OrrWhat? &#187; Church</title>
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	<link>http://johnorr.me.uk</link>
	<description>Random mutterings and musings of mine - a work in progress</description>
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		<item>
		<title>Let me just repeat that.</title>
		<link>http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/07/24/let-me-just-repeat-that/</link>
		<comments>http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/07/24/let-me-just-repeat-that/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jul 2010 20:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Preaching]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Pulpit Supply]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Sermon]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnorr.me.uk/?p=692</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>Many moons ago (well, it seems like it anyway) I agreed to do three pulpit supply dates in August. My thinking was that by the end of July my dissertation would be progressing well and things might be easing off a little. Aye right!</p> <p>Now, one of those churches uses the lectionary and the [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many moons ago (well, it seems like it anyway) I agreed to do three pulpit supply dates in August. My thinking was that by the end of July my dissertation would be progressing well and things might be easing off a little. Aye right!</p>
<p>Now, one of those churches uses the lectionary and the other two don&#8217;t so that sets the agenda for at least one of the Sundays. All three churches are geographically diverse and so there is virtually no risk of &#8216;being followed&#8217; from one to the other. So, given that it&#8217;s unlikely that the lectionary passage is going to crop up in the two other churches any Sunday soon, why not make life easier and use the same sermon and order of service for each church?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s probably what I&#8217;ll end up doing (with variations to allow for the different length of sermon anticipated at each), but part of me still thinks that it&#8217;s &#8216;cheating&#8217;. Mind you, a few years ago we were on holiday and happened to catch a visiting preacher in the church we went to. Soon afterwards we heard that same person in another church and, surprise! surprise! heard the same sermon.</p>
<p>Maybe I should look on it as way of reflecting on how the same text/message is received differently in different contexts. Or maybe it&#8217;s an opportunity to present the same text in different ways and so experience the richness to be found in scripture. The next question though is whether I start with the short sermon and pad it out or do the long one and trim it down.</p>
<p>Anyway, as I was saying&#8230;</p>
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		<item>
		<title>How to be a clone</title>
		<link>http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/06/24/how-to-be-a-clone/</link>
		<comments>http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/06/24/how-to-be-a-clone/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 07:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Blogging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Humour]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Rules]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnorr.me.uk/?p=688</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>In a stroke of good luck (sorry, blessing), Michael Patton published a list of rules all new Christians must follow. It is a very useful follow-up on my post on Christian clones. (And, yes, it is tongue-in-cheek &#8211; I think).</p> ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a stroke of good luck (sorry, blessing), Michael Patton published <a title="Parchment and Pen - Beginners guide to Christianity" href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2010/06/the-beginners-guide-to-christianity/" target="_blank">a list of rules all new Christians must follow</a>. It is a very useful follow-up on my post on Christian clones. (And, yes, it is tongue-in-cheek &#8211; I think).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<item>
		<title>Christian clones</title>
		<link>http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/06/22/christian-clones/</link>
		<comments>http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/06/22/christian-clones/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 20:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ecumenism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Geneva]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Unity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[WCC]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnorr.me.uk/?p=685</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>In that amazing way that only seems to come through a sense of God at work by the Spirit, there was a consistent theme running through much of the activity and challenge on the recent trip to Geneva. (Although I suspect that the lecturers who organised the trip would like to claim that that [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In that amazing way that only seems to come through a sense of God at work by the Spirit, there was a consistent theme running through much of the activity and challenge on the recent trip to Geneva. (Although I suspect that the lecturers who organised the trip would like to claim that that was its intention all along). That theme can probably best be described by paraphrasing (my excuse for poorly translating) the main sermon point from the French service in the Cathedral St Pierre on the Sunday morning:</p>
<blockquote><p>Unity does not mean uniformity; diversity does not mean division.</p></blockquote>
<p><span id="more-685"></span>It seems to me that one of the main challenges the churches and denominations face, perhaps moreso in this time than any other, is to work with greater integrity and grace with one another. As the Christian faith suffers at the hands of an increasingly secularised society (and, indeed, an increasingly more apathetic society &#8211; perhaps the greater danger), the public perception of division and disagreement within the Church (upper-case &#8216;C&#8217;, no one denomination) can only hasten its marginalisation.</p>
<p>The answer, of course, does not lie in creating uniformity and stifling diversity. I can&#8217;t think of anything more dire than an army of Christian clones who all act the same and think the same. And indeed, does creation itself not argue against such an approach? How easy would it have been for God to create each person in His own likeness, in exactly the same way, over and over again? Yet that is not what we have. Instead, there is an enormous variety of gifts and talents, of creativity and uniqueness.</p>
<p>Our trip included a visit to the <a title="World Council of Churches" href="http://www.oikoumene.org/" target="_blank">World Council of Churches</a> and it was fascinating getting a first-hand account of what their aims were and the challenges they face. Here, perhaps more than anywhere, the reality of unity without uniformity and diversity without division ought to have been clearly seen. And yet, we still heard stories of disagreements, but also some interesting little hints of change, of long-standing barriers gradually being broken down and challenged.</p>
<p>Of course such changes take time and there will always be voices who oppose such cross-denomination activities. But we were reminded one evening that the Reformed church&#8217;s cry of &#8216;semper reformanda&#8217; is so often mistranslated as &#8216;always reforming&#8217;. Rather its more correct understanding of &#8216;always in need of reform&#8217; seems to be something that we need to grab hold of as relationships with others develops. It says that we don&#8217;t have all the answers or the correct way of doing things. And this, of course, is another cause of Christian &#8216;clones&#8217; &#8211; a sense of having the correct answers and the right way of &#8216;doing&#8217; church means that one never questions, but simply adopts.</p>
<p><a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=64&amp;passage=Isaiah+53%3A6" class="bibleref" title="NIVUK Isaiah 53:6" target="_new">Isaiah 53:6</a> tells us that we have all wandered off the path, like sheep. We may well all behave like sheep, but with the exception of Dolly, even sheep aren&#8217;t clones. Time to stop behaving as though we need to be.</p>
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		<title>Prophetic ministry</title>
		<link>http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/05/20/prophetic-ministry/</link>
		<comments>http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/05/20/prophetic-ministry/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 09:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Books]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ethics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Emerging Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Prophetic voice]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Walter Brueggemann]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnorr.me.uk/?p=671</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been catching up on some reading recently (I&#8217;ve not long finished The Mystery of Christ by Robert Farrar Capon and Velvet Elvis by Rob Bell) and currently working my way through The Prophetic Imagination by Walter Brueggemann. When I&#8217;m not banging on about Emerging Church, one of my soapboxes is the need for [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been catching up on some reading recently (I&#8217;ve not long finished <a title="Amazon - The Mystery of Christ, Robert Farrar Capon" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mystery-Christ-Why-Dont-Get/dp/0802801218/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1274345897&amp;sr=8-3" target="_blank"><em>The Mystery of Christ</em></a> by Robert Farrar Capon and <a title="Amazon - Velvet Elvis, Rob Bell" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Velvet-Elvis-Repainting-Christian-Faith/dp/0310273080/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1274345925&amp;sr=8-1" target="_blank"><em>Velvet Elvis</em></a> by Rob Bell) and currently working my way through <a title="Amazon - The Prophetic Imagination, Walter Brueggemann" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Prophetic-Imagination-Walter-Brueggemann/dp/0800632877/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1274345713&amp;sr=8-1" target="_blank">The Prophetic Imagination</a> by Walter Brueggemann. When I&#8217;m not banging on about Emerging Church, one of my soapboxes is the need for Christians (especially Christian leaders) to be the &#8216;prophetic voice&#8217; within society &#8211; pointing out its failings and pointing to a better way. This is at the heart of Brueggemann&#8217;s book and I came across a passage worth quoting:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>The task of prophetic ministry is to nurture, nourish and evoke a consciousness and perception alternative to the consciousness and perception of the dominant culture around us.</em> Thus I suggest that prophetic ministry has to do not primarily with addressing specific public crises but with addressing, in season and out of season, the dominant crisis that is enduring and resilient, of having our alternative vocation co-opted and domesticated.</p></blockquote>
<p>The italics are Brueggemann&#8217;s and state the hypothesis for  the book. The extract, I believe, succinctly states the mission and problem for the church. The church needs to be counter-cultural. And that doesn&#8217;t mean that it decries culture, rather it should always be asking if this is the &#8216;best&#8217; we can achieve. And by &#8216;best&#8217;, I would suggest that that means being more &#8216;Christ-like&#8217;; being fully human and fully spiritual creatures, living life in its fullest measure without fear of discrimination, oppression and injustice.</p>
<p>But the extract also highlights the biggest danger the church faces &#8211; becoming &#8216;co-opted and domesticated&#8217;. (The phrase, &#8220;Aslan is not a tame lion&#8221; has just sprung to mind). My biggest fear of Emerging Church is that the Christian distinctives get subsumed by a desire to be &#8216;relevant&#8217; &#8211; faith and worship are co-opted to suit a context, rather than that happening the other way round. Domestication comes when the church is no longer proactive but reactive and is &#8216;used&#8217; to provide social services or a place where religious-types can go on a Sunday morning. Or perhaps domestication has come through the church becoming a useful branch of Historic Scotland responsible for the upkeep of a bunch of old buildings. I&#8217;m sure there are many ways in which we have become &#8216;co-opted and domesticated&#8217;.</p>
<p>How easy is it though to rediscover our revolutionary voice?</p>
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		<item>
		<title>Theological shift</title>
		<link>http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/03/26/theological-shift/</link>
		<comments>http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/03/26/theological-shift/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 20:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Emerging Church]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnorr.me.uk/?p=644</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>My recent musings on Emerging Church have also been getting me thinking about some of the theological underpinnings of EC and, to a degree, traditional church. At the moment I&#8217;m still trying to get them straight in my head and one mechanism for me to do that is to do a bit of a [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My recent musings on Emerging Church have also been getting me thinking about some of the theological underpinnings of EC and, to a degree, traditional church. At the moment I&#8217;m still trying to get them straight in my head and one mechanism for me to do that is to do a bit of a brain-dump on here. That&#8217;s really just to serve as a warning that this particular blog post is probably going to be even more incoherent than usual and will almost certainly present a point of view which is far from fixed and will need considerable refinement.</p>
<p>It has also been prompted by a couple of questions from Scott, and in particular his <a title="Comment on Inspiration and brick walls post" href="http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/03/11/inspiration-and-brick-walls/comment-page-1/#comment-4950">most recent question</a> about some of the underlying assumptions we make when &#8216;doing mission&#8217;. So, in no particular order, some thoughts on theology (and more to follow in subsequent posts).</p>
<p><strong><span id="more-644"></span>In or out?</strong> The fundamental premise of traditional church seems to be similar to one of the old lottery slogans &#8211; &#8220;You have to be in it to win it.&#8221;  Simplistically put, salvation comes through acknowledging Jesus as Lord and coming to church. That&#8217;s deliberately over-simplistic but I believe it captures much of the essence of where traditional church seems to be at the moment. Even more mission-minded churches, with great outreach programmes, still seem to have &#8216;come and join us&#8217; as the underlying motive. Underlying this emphasis is the RC doctrine of there being no salvation apart from the church. Protestant doctrine nuances this somewhat but still has a focus on being &#8216;called into community&#8217;. Evangelical emphasis is much more biased towards individualism (consider how many phrases used by evangelicals are about &#8216;personal saviour&#8217; or individuals coming to a &#8216;saving faith&#8217;) but still with the expectation that once someone has made that &#8216;personal decision for Christ&#8217;, they will readily come to church.</p>
<p>EC attempts to turn this on its head somewhat. Its stated aim is to take the sacred into the secular &#8211; to transform the secular by being the body of Christ in the world. Slogans like, &#8220;find where God is at work and join in,&#8221; are often bandied around as being the &#8216;real&#8217; missional approach. EC is very much about an integrated faith and life and so one&#8217;s face suffuses every aspect of our interaction with our secular surroundings. Actually, to be entirely fair to EC, this distinction between the sacred and the secular is seen by EC as a false one. If we speak of God being active in the world, how can we speak of it as being secular? And so, for that reason, to behave one way when in church and to behave differently in society is to display a lack of integrity.</p>
<p>Mission, therefore, is not about evangelising to bring people in, but to participate in the <em>missio Dei</em> and bring about something of the Kingdom here and now, albeit in a provisional form. The extreme of this view gets me on my eschatological hobby-horse though. I find that (despite the popularity of NT Wright within EC theological circles) EC theology falls to far into the &#8216;realised eschatology&#8217; camp. It&#8217;s not necessarily a bad place to be but I think it leads to a works-based (or perhaps works-biased)  soteriology. Maybe this isn&#8217;t an entirely fair criticism, but I sense that it shifts in that direction.</p>
<p>Which links me in to another issue associated with the missional style EC adopts. Picking up on the soteriology issue, it begs the question about the &#8216;Great Commission&#8217; laid upon Christians. Is &#8216;making disciples&#8217; a matter of showing people that the &#8216;good work&#8217; they are doing is really God&#8217;s work and getting them to acknowledge that and keep working (this is the works-based soteriology coming through)? Because it seems to me that if we acknowledge that God is at work in the world, and that all good works ultimately flow from Him, then there is actually little or no imperative for evangelism. I suppose that one could argue that by bringing a person to faith, their works can become even more effective as they understand their importance and their focus. It means that the works that they do which are less God-oriented can be revised to make them so.</p>
<p>There is, of course, all manner of middle ground, nuanced by other theological suppositions, but it seems that these are some of the theological issues which traditional church needs to wrestle with if it is to co-exist happily with EC. I think that part of the reason that there is suspicion on both sides is that the focus has largely been upon the &#8216;visible&#8217; &#8211; the way each &#8216;do&#8217; church. I&#8217;m not sure that the underlying theological reasons for each side&#8217;s has been made obvious. On the part of established church it has often just been assumed that people understand why things are done the way they are done and there is little questioning of it. For EC, their problem is that the underlying theological justifications haven&#8217;t really been made voiced effectively. Too much of it has been reaction to established church. There are not too many works enunciating and evaluating the underlying theology of EC from the point of view of what EC does (rather than why they don&#8217;t do what established church does).</p>
<p>Someone asked me recently what my position was on EC and I had to answer that I am a &#8216;supportive sceptic&#8217;. I suppose that until I become convinced that the same theological rigour has been applied to EC as the established church has had to deal with (and I might not necessarily agree with some of the positions found in the established church, but at least I understand why they hold them) then I will always be sceptical of EC practices. At the moment I&#8217;m simply not convinced that the cry of holistic/integrated faith and life rings true. Sometimes I wonder if it&#8217;s just an excuse for not getting out of bed on a Sunday morning.</p>
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		<title>Coming up for air</title>
		<link>http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/02/08/coming-up-for-air-2/</link>
		<comments>http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/02/08/coming-up-for-air-2/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Placement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hymns]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Worship]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnorr.me.uk/?p=623</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve not blogged much recently simply because I&#8217;ve been pretty busy. I know I owe Scott a post about my own theological stance but that&#8217;s going to have to wait a bit longer as well.</p> <p>I finally got the first of my research essays handed in last week. Late, but accepted, after a slight [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve not blogged much recently simply because I&#8217;ve been pretty busy. I know I owe Scott a post about my own theological stance but that&#8217;s going to have to wait a bit longer as well.</p>
<p>I finally got the first of my research essays handed in last week. Late, but accepted, after a slight misunderstanding over due dates (and how &#8216;fixed&#8217; they were). A week past Sunday I was preaching and Sunday past I was taking the entire service. So I&#8217;ve had little time to focus on reflection and even less to blog my thoughts.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also in the middle of preparing the devotional slot for Wednesday&#8217;s MTN and was exceedingly grateful for the distraction of Dorothy&#8217;s <a title="Rumours of Angels? - Being human..." href="http://rumoursofangels.blogspot.com/2010/02/being-human.html" target="_blank">blog post here</a> which fitted very nicely with where my thoughts were headed.</p>
<p>But I didn&#8217;t want to witter on about how busy I am and go for the sympathy vote. I wanted to blog something that is more of a reminder to myself than a full-on, warts-and-all description and reflection.</p>
<p>Yesterday evening was the monthly evening service in my placement church and the theme for the evening was &#8220;Sing a new song&#8221;. It was an opportunity to learn a few new songs which would be getting done over Lent and Easter. It was in part my fault. Whenever I send a list of suggestions for hymns each week, invariably there are a few (many) which aren&#8217;t known. So it was decided that it would be a good time to expand the repertoire a little.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s just say that reactions were mixed (but generally favourable) but the way the service was done was a masterclass in the art of the  &#8216; gracious and gentle rebuke&#8217;. Sort of like being pummelled by a giant, soft pillow, but one that weighed a ton so that you knew when it landed on on you.</p>
<p>I know that hymns can be an especially emotive subject with people and I do sympathise. I have ranted about it before (can&#8217;t remember if I&#8217;ve ever blogged about it though). Communal singing is one of the few times when the congregation gets to participate directly and actively in worship and I get very annoyed when that opportunity is compromised through inaccessible hymn tunes and words or overly complex arrangements which only the trained choir can do justice to.</p>
<p>But anyway, there will be a few new tunes over Lent and Easter, and we may even do them several times just to be sure they stick.</p>
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		<title>One church</title>
		<link>http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/01/12/one-church/</link>
		<comments>http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/01/12/one-church/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 09:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[University]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Barth]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Emerging Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Fresh Expressions]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Unity]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnorr.me.uk/?p=608</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been working through some reading for my first research essay and it&#8217;s starting to take shape in my head. Just need it to start taking shape on paper now. Anyway, it&#8217;s part of my overall investigations into the theology of emerging church (my research direction wandered off at a tangent and is now [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been working through some reading for my first research essay and it&#8217;s starting to take shape in my head. Just need it to start taking shape on paper now. Anyway, it&#8217;s part of my overall investigations into the theology of emerging church (my research direction wandered off at a tangent and is now heading in a somewhat different direction from its original intent). This initial research subject is about &#8216;unity&#8217;. Its direction is somewhat set by having to consider the topic with more than a passing nod to Barth (as I opted to do the Barth course for credit rather than audit it). But that&#8217;s not a problem. Barth has more than enough to say on the subject of church unity.</p>
<p><span id="more-608"></span></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been looking at <a title="Fresh Expressions" href="http://freshexpressions.org.uk/" target="_blank">Fresh Expressions</a> &#8211; the Church of England/Methodist project into finding, strangely enough, fresh ways for people to express or explore their faith. In many respects it&#8217;s the background to much of what is happening within the Church of Scotland. What&#8217;s been interesting is that Emerging Church in its guises as &#8216;alternative worship&#8217; or &#8216;seeker-sensitive&#8217; or whatever other label one might care to apply is actually a subset of the overall strategy. By broadening out what &#8216;church&#8217; is, in the sense of how to be a worshipping community, then the unity of the church is maintained. However, this opening out and creating space within the structure of &#8216;organised religion&#8217; is not universally accepted as &#8216;a good thing&#8217;. How can one be a radical voice or a &#8216;fresh expression&#8217; when one is still part of the &#8216;established&#8217; church? The very fact that a group is still within the structures of the &#8216;parent&#8217; denomination means that it can only ever be emerging and never really emerge.</p>
<p>In the book <a title="Book Depository - Evaluating Fresh Expressions" href="http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9781853118166/Evaluating-Fresh-Expressions" target="_blank">Evaluating Fresh Expressions</a>, an article by <a title="Peter Rollins" href="http://peterrollins.net/" target="_blank">Dr Peter Rollins</a>, co-ordinator of the emerging church movement <a title="Ikon" href="http://www.ikon.org.uk/" target="_blank">Ikon</a> in Belfast, is pretty hard-hitting when it comes to this subject. He questions whether maintaining the close connection with the structures of &#8216;traditional&#8217; church allows an emergent expression of church to find its real voice. He goes so far as to suggest that maintaining such a connection is a &#8220;restriction, misrepresentation and even perversion of the very message that they offer to both those outside and those within the church&#8221; (p84).</p>
<p>The challenge of such a view (and this is the point of the essay) is that we then have to look beyond our own denomination and tradition and consider what it means to be part of the &#8216;church catholic&#8217;. Barth offers a similar challenge. Church, he suggests, is, at its most basic, a statement of faith, derived from the creedal statement &#8211; &#8220;We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.&#8221; As such, it is not a matter of &#8216;knowing&#8217; it is right, wrong or whatever, but believing that the church, the body of Christ, simply <em>&#8216;is&#8217;</em>. For Barth, that &#8216;being&#8217; is marked by the work of the Spirit within and through the church. That calls into question our ideas of the &#8216;right&#8217; and &#8216;wrong&#8217; ways of &#8216;doing&#8217; church. But it also continues to call into question what it means to be church and what the purpose of church is. Barth is still, in a sense, tied to the institution of church. This, in large part, is to avoid the dangers of 0f individualistic experientialism; a danger I think some expressions of Emerging Church are at risk of slipping into. That, of course raises the question of whether it is indeed a danger. Barth&#8217;s big argument here is that we are called as a saved people, not as individuals as such. It was the nation of Israel God established, not a disparate group of individuals. But maybe that&#8217;s a subject for another essay.</p>
<p>In the meantime, when we consider/believe we are &#8216;one church&#8217;, how far are we prepared to go to count other expressions of church as still part of the body of Christ and therefore part of our Christian fellowship?</p>
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		<title>Protected: 2 school services</title>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
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		<title>Challenging words</title>
		<link>http://johnorr.me.uk/2009/11/25/challenging-words/</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
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		<description><![CDATA[<p>The last &#8216;proper&#8217; Barth class was today and, whilst the readings have often been heavy going, their challenge to faith and theology is very clear. There have been many quotable parts, but my particular favourite came with the readings for today. From Church Dogmatics IV/3, the context is Barth challenging how the church (or [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last &#8216;proper&#8217; Barth class was today and, whilst the readings have often been heavy going, their challenge to faith and theology is very clear. There have been many quotable parts, but my particular favourite came with the readings for today. From Church Dogmatics IV/3, the context is Barth challenging how the church (or more accurately, the faith community) sees itself in the world. He has already challenged the notion that the faith community must hold itself apart from the world. Rather is must be utterly &#8216;for&#8217; the world whilst holding on to its distinctiveness (holiness). Anyway, on the back of that comes an enormously challenging section on what being &#8216;for&#8217; the world, and having solidarity with the world, means. He says:</p>
<blockquote><p>Solidarity with the world means that those who are genuinely pious approach the children of the world as such, that those who are genuinely righteous are not ashamed to sit down with the unrighteous as friends, that those who are genuinely wise do not hesitate to seem to be fools among fools, and that those who are genuinely holy are not too good or irreproachable to go down &#8220;into hell&#8221; in a very secular fashion.</p>
<p style="text-align: right;">Barth CD IV/3, p774</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>I like Barth</title>
		<link>http://johnorr.me.uk/2009/11/12/i-like-barth/</link>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 23:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
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		<description><![CDATA[<p>Not Simpson (Though him as well), but Karl Barth. I&#8217;m even beginning to regret avoiding his theology for my four years as an undergrad (although the truth is that at New College, it&#8217;s impossible to avoid Barth if you do any systematics courses). Why do I like him? Because when he writes, you get [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not Simpson (Though him as well), but Karl Barth. I&#8217;m even beginning to regret avoiding his theology for my four years as an undergrad (although the truth is that at New College, it&#8217;s impossible to avoid Barth if you do any systematics courses). Why do I like him? Because when he writes, you get the impression he&#8217;s still working stuff out and it&#8217;s the act of getting it on paper that helps it coalesce.</p>
<p>Today&#8217;s class was a starter on Barth&#8217;s ecclesiology and it focused on the creedal statement, &#8220;I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.&#8221; That was interesting enough and, in fact, inspired my likely essay for the course. But what was fascinating was a section on who was a &#8216;true&#8217; Christian. There was the very thorough consideration of all the possible &#8216;marks&#8217; of a true Christian and ultimately Barth&#8217;s deliberations seemed to come down to &#8211; &#8220;we don&#8217;t know&#8221;. And his advice? Get on with being a &#8216;true&#8217; Christian yourself and just assume everyone else you&#8217;re concerned about is as well.</p>
<p>He had pretty much the same to say about church disunity. Having utterly savaged the &#8216;scandal&#8217; of church division he concludes, pretty much, the same sort of thing. As a community of believers, get on with being just that and worry more about your witness to non-believers than trying to get other churches &#8216;back on track&#8217;.</p>
<p>Barth obviously used considerably more words to say that than I have, but it was his way of covering all the possible &#8216;get-out&#8217; clauses and excuses. It&#8217;s fascinating to read a theologian who almost seems happy to stop at the &#8216;I don&#8217;t know&#8217; place and to practically hear his thoughts as he struggles with the implications of where his ideas are going.</p>
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