Comments on: Coming up for air http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/02/08/coming-up-for-air-2/ Random mutterings and musings of mine - a work in progress Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:42:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: David http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/02/08/coming-up-for-air-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4883 David Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:35:45 +0000 http://johnorr.me.uk/?p=623#comment-4883 Welcome to the busy ministerial life... Interesting discussion on music and worship. I kinda like the Kendrick songs and while they don't always 'go where they should' that isn't always a bad thing. The 'I' experience is an interesting area. Where I have seen praise bands in operation I have nearly always come away thinking that I've witnessed a performance rather than worship and that performance has been something of a musical ego trip for the performers. I know that isn't always fair, but that is what I have been left feeling. Real worship is a rare commodity. That blend of true singing aided by the musicians, where they are almost incidental to the worship process. It's almost as if they're not there, or at least, not dominating the singing, and there need not be singing for music to be uplifting either. While out in Israel and after one celebration of communion I found myself humming the tune to 'Come Holy Ghost our hearts inspire', a plainsong melody. (someone else starting singing it in another place conpletely unconnected) The setting and the baggage that we bring influences what worship actually happens, and that may be the reason why real and authentic worship seems to be a rare thing. Welcome to the busy ministerial life… Interesting discussion on music and worship. I kinda like the Kendrick songs and while they don’t always ‘go where they should’ that isn’t always a bad thing.
The ‘I’ experience is an interesting area. Where I have seen praise bands in operation I have nearly always come away thinking that I’ve witnessed a performance rather than worship and that performance has been something of a musical ego trip for the performers. I know that isn’t always fair, but that is what I have been left feeling.
Real worship is a rare commodity. That blend of true singing aided by the musicians, where they are almost incidental to the worship process. It’s almost as if they’re not there, or at least, not dominating the singing, and there need not be singing for music to be uplifting either.
While out in Israel and after one celebration of communion I found myself humming the tune to ‘Come Holy Ghost our hearts inspire’, a plainsong melody. (someone else starting singing it in another place conpletely unconnected) The setting and the baggage that we bring influences what worship actually happens, and that may be the reason why real and authentic worship seems to be a rare thing.

]]> By: John http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/02/08/coming-up-for-air-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4882 John Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:51:30 +0000 http://johnorr.me.uk/?p=623#comment-4882 <p>Hi Stuart,</p> <p>I confess to having a certain sympathy with your author's position. I think what Kendrick achieved was to re-popularise Christian music - no bad thing. But I think he did it at the expense of some of its integrity and purpose. I find many (but not all) of his songs are difficult for a congregation unless they are well known. They don't always 'go' where you expect them to and the parts can be confusing. That said, they are great for a more performance-style event, led by a worship band. You can sing along if you want to, but it's about 'experiencing' the music. That, to my mind, is not true participation and its danger lies in it being about what 'I' experience and not about me worshipping God.</p> <p>Getty and Townend (and many others) seem to have found a good balance of sound theology with accessible music, easily sung in a congregational setting. It also has the advantage that it lends itself to more adventurous arrangements for when performance is appropriate. To be fair that's probably a legacy of Kendrick's, so to write him off entirely would be very wrong.</p> Hi Stuart,

I confess to having a certain sympathy with your author’s position. I think what Kendrick achieved was to re-popularise Christian music – no bad thing. But I think he did it at the expense of some of its integrity and purpose. I find many (but not all) of his songs are difficult for a congregation unless they are well known. They don’t always ‘go’ where you expect them to and the parts can be confusing. That said, they are great for a more performance-style event, led by a worship band. You can sing along if you want to, but it’s about ‘experiencing’ the music. That, to my mind, is not true participation and its danger lies in it being about what ‘I’ experience and not about me worshipping God.

Getty and Townend (and many others) seem to have found a good balance of sound theology with accessible music, easily sung in a congregational setting. It also has the advantage that it lends itself to more adventurous arrangements for when performance is appropriate. To be fair that’s probably a legacy of Kendrick’s, so to write him off entirely would be very wrong.

]]> By: Stuart Jamieson http://johnorr.me.uk/2010/02/08/coming-up-for-air-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4881 Stuart Jamieson Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:30:34 +0000 http://johnorr.me.uk/?p=623#comment-4881 One of my Christmas presents was the tongue in cheek "50 people who B****** up Britain"  it was full of the usual selection of politicians, Bankers, etc. It also came from a very right wing position (which isn't me at all) meaning that people I consider more complicit in negatively affecting the state of our nation (like Margaret Thatcher) got off lightly. However, one of the entries that took me by surprise was the entry of Graham Kendrick, the author didn't take particular offence at any of Graham's songs - That was reserved for Brian Howard's "Butterfly song" but while that song was seen as worst, Graham was seen as the most influential and prolific and therfor (in the opinion of the author) most guilty for destroying church music. While I disagreed with the author, it did make me think about the increase in new but traditional sounding hymns coming from the likes of Stuart Townend and Keith Getty and wonder if perhaps there is a backlash against the modernism in church song-writing that appeared in the 70s and 80s? One of my Christmas presents was the tongue in cheek “50 people who B****** up Britain”  it was full of the usual selection of politicians, Bankers, etc. It also came from a very right wing position (which isn’t me at all) meaning that people I consider more complicit in negatively affecting the state of our nation (like Margaret Thatcher) got off lightly.
However, one of the entries that took me by surprise was the entry of Graham Kendrick, the author didn’t take particular offence at any of Graham’s songs – That was reserved for Brian Howard’s “Butterfly song” but while that song was seen as worst, Graham was seen as the most influential and prolific and therfor (in the opinion of the author) most guilty for destroying church music.
While I disagreed with the author, it did make me think about the increase in new but traditional sounding hymns coming from the likes of Stuart Townend and Keith Getty and wonder if perhaps there is a backlash against the modernism in church song-writing that appeared in the 70s and 80s?

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