Comments on: Every second counts… http://johnorr.me.uk/2007/09/23/every-second-counts/ Random mutterings and musings of mine - a work in progress Tue, 08 May 2012 19:55:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: John http://johnorr.me.uk/2007/09/23/every-second-counts/comment-page-1/#comment-59 John Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:12:23 +0000 http://johnorr.me.uk/2007/09/23/every-second-counts/#comment-59 Pauline, Thanks for your contribution. Feel free to ramble any time. How long did it take him - sorry, a certain minister - to learn the lesson? And what did you threaten him with? The more I think about anecdotes, the more I think that there's a necessity for them to be 'personal'. I don't mean in the sense that they have to have happened to you, but that you have first-hand knowledge of them or that they make sense in your context. For example, tonight at a dedication service, David used some golfing references. They work for him because he's a golfer (and those who were there knew this about him). I don't golf so if I tried to use them they'd obviously be contrived and false-sounding. < thinking out loud > Then again, as an unknown person, could I use any anecdote and get away with it? I don't think so because unless I was a particularly gifted storyteller, I don't think I could tell it with enough conviction and with the correct nuances. Hmmm ... more thought required < /thinking out loud > ps ; ) without the space in between should produce a ;) Pauline,
Thanks for your contribution. Feel free to ramble any time. How long did it take him – sorry, a certain minister – to learn the lesson? And what did you threaten him with?
The more I think about anecdotes, the more I think that there’s a necessity for them to be ‘personal’. I don’t mean in the sense that they have to have happened to you, but that you have first-hand knowledge of them or that they make sense in your context. For example, tonight at a dedication service, David used some golfing references. They work for him because he’s a golfer (and those who were there knew this about him). I don’t golf so if I tried to use them they’d obviously be contrived and false-sounding. < thinking out loud > Then again, as an unknown person, could I use any anecdote and get away with it? I don’t think so because unless I was a particularly gifted storyteller, I don’t think I could tell it with enough conviction and with the correct nuances. Hmmm … more thought required < /thinking out loud >

ps ; ) without the space in between should produce a ;)

]]> By: Pauline http://johnorr.me.uk/2007/09/23/every-second-counts/comment-page-1/#comment-58 Pauline Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:40:10 +0000 http://johnorr.me.uk/2007/09/23/every-second-counts/#comment-58 As a body in the pew I can say with certainty that there's nothing irks more than the anecdotes which start with "a friend of mine was..."/"a friend of mine said..." type illustrations because said 'friend' inevitably means wife or child and the full flush on the wife's face is enough of a giveaway! Thankfully a certain minister no longer favours this style of anecdote (need a winking smilie here!) Being serious though, I like anecdotes/illustrations etc - I think like David said, that it makes the sermon more personal and provides an illustration of how you can translate the sermon into real life. Having listened to lots of sermons over the years I would have to agree with you John that the really important thing is for the person to be comfortable with the style they're using. If it sounds contrived or if the person seems uncomfortable people soon switch off. Here endeth my ramblings! As a body in the pew I can say with certainty that there’s nothing irks more than the anecdotes which start with “a friend of mine was…”/”a friend of mine said…” type illustrations because said ‘friend’ inevitably means wife or child and the full flush on the wife’s face is enough of a giveaway! Thankfully a certain minister no longer favours this style of anecdote (need a winking smilie here!) Being serious though, I like anecdotes/illustrations etc – I think like David said, that it makes the sermon more personal and provides an illustration of how you can translate the sermon into real life. Having listened to lots of sermons over the years I would have to agree with you John that the really important thing is for the person to be comfortable with the style they’re using. If it sounds contrived or if the person seems uncomfortable people soon switch off. Here endeth my ramblings!

]]> By: David http://johnorr.me.uk/2007/09/23/every-second-counts/comment-page-1/#comment-51 David Mon, 24 Sep 2007 16:06:14 +0000 http://johnorr.me.uk/2007/09/23/every-second-counts/#comment-51 John, no need to worry about 'hole digging' ! Styles will vary from minister to minister because we are all, thank God, different. My style is more of a narrative style of preaching (which is based on the text that the lectionary throws up) which will vary with your more analytical interpretive style. Occasionally I go for the structured analysis by preaching through a letter. (In the past I've done a brief series on Job for instance.) It's good for the congregation to get a variation, as well as fopr me to hear someone else preach. It is a rare privilege as you will probably find out ! John, no need to worry about ‘hole digging’ ! Styles will vary from minister to minister because we are all, thank God, different. My style is more of a narrative style of preaching (which is based on the text that the lectionary throws up) which will vary with your more analytical interpretive style.
Occasionally I go for the structured analysis by preaching through a letter. (In the past I’ve done a brief series on Job for instance.) It’s good for the congregation to get a variation, as well as fopr me to hear someone else preach. It is a rare privilege as you will probably find out !

]]> By: John http://johnorr.me.uk/2007/09/23/every-second-counts/comment-page-1/#comment-49 John Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:25:59 +0000 http://johnorr.me.uk/2007/09/23/every-second-counts/#comment-49 David, Didn't mean to suggest I was trying to categorise you. As you say and as we've already discussed, labels are very unhelpful and can be limiting. But people tend to have a 'style' (perhaps that's a better word) and I was trying to suggest that our styles of preaching are possibly quite different. (I'll stop digging now I'm in a hole) David,
Didn’t mean to suggest I was trying to categorise you. As you say and as we’ve already discussed, labels are very unhelpful and can be limiting. But people tend to have a ‘style’ (perhaps that’s a better word) and I was trying to suggest that our styles of preaching are possibly quite different.
(I’ll stop digging now I’m in a hole)

]]> By: David http://johnorr.me.uk/2007/09/23/every-second-counts/comment-page-1/#comment-44 David Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:25:25 +0000 http://johnorr.me.uk/2007/09/23/every-second-counts/#comment-44 Anecdotes are fine provided that they are not self serving. I've used illustations from pastoral incidents where I have either kept it anonymous or have sought permission to quote someone. It helps to make sermons personal, and we all hope that people go away thinking that we have moved people to some positive spiritual action. Categorising people isn't always helpful. We do that with God sometimes and he surprises us by speaking to us out of our comfort zone. Doing that with people can limit our understanding of individuals and can erect barriers that are difficult to break down later. I say this knowing full well that I did this as a student, seeking out the 'sound' preachers etc. Anecdotes are fine provided that they are not self serving. I’ve used illustations from pastoral incidents where I have either kept it anonymous or have sought permission to quote someone. It helps to make sermons personal, and we all hope that people go away thinking that we have moved people to some positive spiritual action.
Categorising people isn’t always helpful. We do that with God sometimes and he surprises us by speaking to us out of our comfort zone. Doing that with people can limit our understanding of individuals and can erect barriers that are difficult to break down later. I say this knowing full well that I did this as a student, seeking out the ‘sound’ preachers etc.

]]> By: John http://johnorr.me.uk/2007/09/23/every-second-counts/comment-page-1/#comment-42 John Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:37:18 +0000 http://johnorr.me.uk/2007/09/23/every-second-counts/#comment-42 I think using well-known anecdotes to illustrate something new or unexpected can be very powerful. It's not unlike Jesus' method of teaching. He often used a well-known story and changed the emphasis or the ending to make a different point. It was the unexpectedness (and often the radical-ness) of the change that created the impact. I do agree on the application from personal experience. Assuming that what works for you should work for everyone is very arrogant and fails to recognise our differences. That said, it can often be seen by others as an encouragement - "well, someone else managed it". There are no hard and fast rules I guess but integrity of self is important - there's no point in being someone you're not (eg - a comedian when you're just not funny). I guess that's what part of this process is all about - discovering more about who I am in order to present myself honestly to others. Without that honesty and integrity you can't gain authority and trust. I think using well-known anecdotes to illustrate something new or unexpected can be very powerful. It’s not unlike Jesus’ method of teaching. He often used a well-known story and changed the emphasis or the ending to make a different point. It was the unexpectedness (and often the radical-ness) of the change that created the impact.
I do agree on the application from personal experience. Assuming that what works for you should work for everyone is very arrogant and fails to recognise our differences. That said, it can often be seen by others as an encouragement – “well, someone else managed it”.
There are no hard and fast rules I guess but integrity of self is important – there’s no point in being someone you’re not (eg – a comedian when you’re just not funny). I guess that’s what part of this process is all about – discovering more about who I am in order to present myself honestly to others. Without that honesty and integrity you can’t gain authority and trust.

]]> By: Stewart http://johnorr.me.uk/2007/09/23/every-second-counts/comment-page-1/#comment-40 Stewart Sun, 23 Sep 2007 18:39:36 +0000 http://johnorr.me.uk/2007/09/23/every-second-counts/#comment-40 Well done you! The use of anecdotes is interesting in sermons. My dad almost always starts with a joke, never a good joke, to let the congregation settle down. I never tell jokes in my sermon. I tend to more serious and 'emotive' perhaps. I don't mind using anecdotes from books, the net or wherever. I always figure that most people don't sit looking for sermon illustrations online, or if they have heard the story before it won't be in the context I'll use it in so they might look at it through fresh eyes. There is always a danger when talking about yourself I think. It can either seem self-depricating, which wears after a while, or perhaps a little pompus (not that you would ever go for the 'When I was being brilliant...'). I think that it is easier for people to apply the general to themselves than to apply a lesson you learned to their situation. Is that fair? Well done you!
The use of anecdotes is interesting in sermons. My dad almost always starts with a joke, never a good joke, to let the congregation settle down. I never tell jokes in my sermon. I tend to more serious and ‘emotive’ perhaps.
I don’t mind using anecdotes from books, the net or wherever. I always figure that most people don’t sit looking for sermon illustrations online, or if they have heard the story before it won’t be in the context I’ll use it in so they might look at it through fresh eyes.
There is always a danger when talking about yourself I think. It can either seem self-depricating, which wears after a while, or perhaps a little pompus (not that you would ever go for the ‘When I was being brilliant…’). I think that it is easier for people to apply the general to themselves than to apply a lesson you learned to their situation. Is that fair?

]]> By: Lectionary thoughts | OrrWhat? http://johnorr.me.uk/2007/09/23/every-second-counts/comment-page-1/#comment-37 Lectionary thoughts | OrrWhat? Sun, 23 Sep 2007 14:15:40 +0000 http://johnorr.me.uk/2007/09/23/every-second-counts/#comment-37 [...] OrrWhat? Random mutterings and musings of mine - a work in progress Skip to content HomeAbout meA JourneyDownloads « Every second counts… [...] [...] OrrWhat? Random mutterings and musings of mine – a work in progress Skip to content HomeAbout meA JourneyDownloads « Every second counts… [...]

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